to ship or not to ship

[fan_eunice]

Internet, I have a problem. I have no idea if I ship Eleven/Amy or not. This should not be a problem. You know me, I ship everything. And I love them both, separately and together, just about more than I've loved anything in a long time. We're talking Tennant's fashion choices and Hugh's shaved head level of love here. I REALLY LOVE THEM A LOT, OKAY. So what's the problem here?

It's Eleven. I have mentioned before he actually does feel very old, very ancient to me. And parental. Like, in general, not Amy specific. I love this. I love this a really, really, REALLY, (and one more in caps and italics in case the first three didn't convince you), REALLY, lot. Like, I see him dandling the human race on his knee and tucking in, and telling bedtime stories, and sneaking extra cookies, and being really proud when the humans bring home an A on the test, and that "Nobody human has anything to say" moment in Beast Below was totally that time humans got drunk at a party and accidentally ran over the neighbor's dog and crashed the car into a tree and he was SO DISAPPOINTED.

Are you seeing my problem here? There is chemistry to spare between Eleven and Amy and they are adorable and sparky together, and they give each other looks and UST and I'm like...YES PLZ. And then...*waves hands around* SO TORN.

Comments

[laurashapiro]

Can I tell you a sekrit?

I have ALWAYS felt that way about Doctor-Companion relationships. I can never shake my understanding of the huge power differential between the Doctor and humans. His age, his wisdom, his intelligence, his TimeLordly senses -- all of these things position him as a much more powerful being than any companion, whether the dynamic is parent-child or (at RTD's ickiest) god-supplicant.

Parent-child actually looks a lot less squicky to me than some of the recent alternatives. (:

It's one reason I loved Donna so much: she wasn't having any. She was NOT IMPRESSED.

So, yeah, this is why I could never write DW fic even though I desperately wanted it, and why I stopped reading it early in my Doctor-Rose shipping. People wrote them as equals and the stories were all "and then they fucked on the TARDIS console, the end" and just...NO.

So I totally hear what you're saying, is my point.

[fan_eunice]

*nodnodnod*

It's always been an issue, but not as front and center as it is for me with Eleven 'cause something about the way Smith plays him just pings my subconscious hard on the parental front. So while I can wave some of that away in my head, and have for many a Doctor/Companion, the gut level hit on this one makes it CONFUSING on a deeper level than I'm used to.

[laurashapiro]

I totally get that. I'm wondering if a little more time with Eleven will change your initial perceptions of him? It's unclear to me whether Moff is going to have him be romantic or sexual at all, with anyone, at this point. We will know more after this weekend!

[fan_eunice]

Can't. Wait. OMG ELEVENTY

[laurashapiro]

I KNOW. I AM BOUNCY WITH GLEE.

Also, dude, I need icons...

[ellen_fremedon]

*nods*

I think this is why my personal canon has so little overlap between the companions the Doctor had sex with* and the ones he was in love with**. His personality and his desires come so close to subsuming their identities, even when he's trying as hard as he can to put limits on the relationship.

(Really, I think the overlap is just Romana, who was a Time Lady and *still* had to decamp to E-space to get out from his shadow, and Rose, who came along when he was just too fucked up to realize or care just how disastrous that could be.)

* Turlough and Jack, definitely; possibly Liz, the Brig, Nyssa, and/or Mel.
**Jamie. Jo. Maybe Sarah Jane. Ace, sort of, though I think he thought of himself more as a parent/mentor. Charley.

[laurashapiro]

I like your lists. I would add Leela to the "had sex with" list, because wow, talk about consequence-free! (:

[fan_eunice]

Oooooh, interesting. It's funny, when I think about my personal canon in those terms it's more who I kinda want him to have sex with and not who I think he actually did, 'cause that number is...um...zero to me (except Romana, possibly).

Oh shit...I think I am a closet asexualist who just...'ships a lot? Contradictions, I has them.

[ellen_fremedon]

I'm not an asexualist, but there are whole incarnations of the Doctor that I think may well have been celibate. (Three is certainly not asexual, but I'm also not convinced he actually had any sex; ditto Seven.) And whole incarnations that I think may well have been asexual. (Possibly Six, though it's hard to tell; probably Two, though he would have made an exception for Jamie if Jamie had ever asked.)

But my personal canon has little to no effect on what I like to read; I will happily read fic about pairings I'm quite sure never 'really' got it on.

[violetisblue]

What you and Laura said. There's no way any human can be the Doctor's "equal" in the experiential/intellectual senses, though of course saying that in certain corners of this fandom will get you roasted alive.

[fan_eunice]

With marshmallows? Oh, s'mores! Can there be s'mores with our roasting? :D

And, yeah, you're not going to get equality no matter what, it's just funny to me that the power differential here is what stops me in my tracks and doesn't necessarily with other Doctor/Companion relationships. I 'ship Seven/Ace for goodness sake.

*shakes tiny fist at Matt Smith*

[violetisblue]

Well, Ace may have been young but we were never introduced to her as a child, and we also know that Eleven still sees that child in a lot of ways when he looks at her. At least, he does right now.

[fan_eunice]

Very, very true. Hell, I still see Wee Amy in my head sometimes when I look at adult Amy.

[violetisblue]

Also, another way to interpret that little "hands, hands, FOREHEAD KISS!" flail that he did in VotD is him thinking, "Not the mouth, they always misinterpret that and then I end up in a world of trouble--" So, you know, he's holding back for a few reasons, and I think she is as well.

BTW, what you said about the "Nobody human" moment in TBB? That's exactly what he reminded me of, like in "Freaks and Geeks" when Lindsey crashed the family car and her dad was so angry he was actually not even capable of yelling at her.

[fan_eunice]

I was saying over on the eljay post that his interaction with Winston Churchill was very "No you may *not* borrow the keys to the car, and I'm not doing your homework for you either, because how will you learn?"

[laurashapiro]

I so thought that, about the forehead kiss!

[violetisblue]

I could actually see the wheels turning in his head during those few seconds.

[laurashapiro]

Definitely! And it's like "OMG SQUEE ILU" and at the same time "OH SHIT NOT THIS AGAIN" and I really think he did the best possible thing there.

Not that I think the Doctor should give up hugging or hand-holding, mind you. (:

[violetisblue]

He's had enough recent lip-kissing-related disasters to want to tread cautiously, though!

[laurashapiro]

Oh, definitely! Makes me very curious about what the rest of the season will give us. (:

[gelasius]

Yeah, I've often felt this way about Doctor/Companion, but it does seem even more pronounced with Eleven/Amy. Partly because she is established as such a child in his eyes. And I agree that Eleven brings an intense ancient-parental feel to the character, which I absolutely adore.

[fan_eunice]

I absolutely LOVE it. It just..messes with my head, because it brings the whole issue front and center, and I loves my shipping. :D

I hope this makes any sense at all

[fannishnonsense]

I've been thinking about this, and I sort of think that's why I ship them? Like, there's a clip out there where Matt's talking about how great it is to play the Doctor, because he's simultaneously old and young and brilliant and a madman and a bunch of other things (can't remember the exact quote right now) all at once. Which is pretty much how I see the Doctor too. And that just makes it more interesting to me than just "oh, poor lonely alien needs a girlfriend." It's really not an unproblematic, happy-ever-after, lets-get-a-mortgage type of thing; it's weird and sort of messed up and comes with a built in expiration date, and it feels like the people involved with making the show get that this time. Which leaves me free to go "yeah, but what if?"