(no subject)

[fan_eunice]

Have now finished season 6 in my obssessive Buffy rewatch (no, seriously, my off the couch time right now is seriously limited). I was worried about diving into season 6 in my current state of mind, but it was actually the back half of season 5 which was worse for that. I know this is going to sound really weird, and it's possible it's because I know where it's all coming out the other side in season 7 already...but for all that it's horribly fucked up season 6 is actually more hopeful to me right now than the relentless pile on build leading to that jump off the tower.

Also, season 6 as a concentrated whole is, I think, a far better season than it gets credit for. It's a weakness of serial television that week to week watching didn't help...and in combination with the flashpoint of fannish wars and bad feelings, of which Spike was the centerpoint but not the only one on the table, that left a seriously bad taste in many mouths.

But. But. Aside from the shift to addiction language in Willow's storyline, which is what I think is the only out and out mistake, I don't think there are very many missteps at all really (yes, even that thing. and that one. that one too.) Deeply painful to watch in many aspects, yes. But I'm just gonna say it right here. Season 6 of Buffy did not come back wrong. Possibly more detailed thoughts on that later.

Comments

[laurashapiro]

I always loved S6. The addiction metaphor was just wrong-headed, but I loved everything else about it (and I say that as someone who is deeply anti-Spuffy).

S5, now. I can rant for hours with loathing.

[fan_eunice]

Heh, see...I love season 5, and as you know I really love both Spike and Spuffy. But then, I don't think season 6 is anti-Spuffy unless you buy into the going Redemptionista theories of the time that Spike was capable of rejecting his nature for love. Where, for me, what's interesting about it is the absolutely untenable conflict between what he is, what he feels, and what he wants. Maybe I'm weird, but I don't find it nearly as fascinating if it's just a story about how love conquers all or whatever. If the point is that it doesn't then my interest perks up way more.

But then, I also never had trouble buying that Spike went to get his soul on purpose...I just think he didn't do it for love in the noble sense, it was fit of childish petulant impulse based "Oh yeah, I'll show her, won't she be sorry" revenge thinking, combined with an absolute inability to deal with the above mentioned untenable conflict...because Spike is not exactly the sharpest crayon in the box in terms of thinking things through. And...I like it that way?

I do think what Spike and Buffy went through both together and in parallel is absolutely the (ironically) set up for the basis of the deep trust and understanding between them later and the possibility of an actual relationship, though I suspect we don't agree on that :D

[elisi]

Re. the soul thing - this is how I see it. :)

[laurashapiro]

I don't buy into Redemptionista theories, particularly. I just think that S6 shows how unhealthy Spike is for Buffy. And I dig that, because I think it's true, but also because that particular type of unhealth is so believably what she'd reach out for at this point in her life. It really resonates for me. It just feels right.

I admit I don't spend a lot of time thinking about the relationship from Spike's point of view, though. (:

The going-to-get-a-soul-on-purpose thing we're just gonna have to disagree about, I think. I know too much from a Doylist POV to be able to accept the Watsonian reading of it. But your interpretation of why he did it makes more sense than any I've read.

I actually do agree with what you say about their deep trust and understanding in S7. I feel that way about many of my exes, and it's a feeling that can be quite specific to exes, actually, that particular kind of trust. I have trouble seeing past the attempted rape, but Buffy is a very young woman, and I can see how she wouldn't have the same feelings about it.

[fan_eunice]

And I dig that, because I think it's true, but also because that particular type of unhealth is so believably what she'd reach out for at this point in her life.

Yup, yup, yup. And as someone who has thought about it from Spike's POV quite a lot it wasn't anywhere near healthy for him either. My Spuffy shipping is complicated, but one of the reasons I stayed out of the raging debates on it during season 6 is because while everyone was busy picking 'sides' and throwing blame around I was mostly just...sad for both of them. It was the perfect storm of dysfunction all over where they managed to feed the absolute worst in each other with neither one being in a place to put the breaks on for a long time (my reaction to Buffy finally breaking it off for real was OH THANK GOD).

I have...deeply complicated feelings about the attempted rape. In story, I actually don't have any issues with the way it played out during or after, particularly factoring in the mystical elements of the universe surrounding vampires and slayers and souls. From an external perspective it just...I am deeply uncomfortable with the real world translation. As much as I love (and to be clear I love it a *lot*) the continuation of the Spike/Buffy storyline in season 7, I think they probably should have either gone with a different violent catalyst for the soul having or shifted Spike over to Angel right then and not have him come back. Which would have been fairly easy to do, since I think it's clear Spike had no clue what he was getting into with the soul having, and his remorse leading him to the conclusion that he needed to stay away would have made plenty of sense. *shrug*

[laurashapiro]

I could see what was bad about it for Spike, no question -- the show certainly lingered on that. But my identification with Buffy was HUGE, and I never liked what the show did with Spike after "Lovers' Walk," so I was pretty focused on her experience.

(my reaction to Buffy finally breaking it off for real was OH THANK GOD)

No argument from me, there!

I think you're right about the attempted rape. Better to use a less fraught catalyst, or have Spike leave the show right after that. I would have preferred either option to the one we got.

I've read various writers saying that the entire series is basically a meditation on sexual assault, and if I squint I can kind of go there. But I still think that it was the wrong choice to have Spike attack Buffy in that way, if they wanted viewers to retain any sympathy for him. The soul thing is, IMO, a red herring. Soul-having humans rape people every day. You don't have to be a demon to do it.

This conversation makes me wish I knew you better when the show was airing! The conversations we could have had...

[littleheaven]

Season 6 was Gareth's favourite, though it was my least at the time it screened. I just found it all too depressing because I like my genre TV with a healthy dollop of light-heartedness and there was precious little of that towards the end of the show.

For the record, I liked 3 the best.

[the_shoshanna]

Once again, I agree entirely. Buffy's life sucked in season 6. That was the point. The season itself did not suck. (Except for the addiction metaphor storyline, oh my god shut UP with that.)