![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
I thought maybe I was going to manage a Buffy rewatch without any thinky posts about Spike. Ha. Like that was going to happen. 'Cause I want to talk about Giles and Robin's plan to, erm, deal with Spike in Lies My Parents told me. I remember at the time it aired feeling completely out of step with most of the reactions to this episode on both sides of the fence.
Here's the thing. I love Spike. So it's not like I want him dead. But, I also think that Giles, Robin, any of the Scoobies, or, hell...a random passing postman on the street has the absolute moral right to drive pointy wooden things through his heart whenever they please. That's aside from the danger he may pose because of the trigger. There's no need for any reason beyond, 'he's a vampire with a hundred year with a body count the size of a small country' required here. You can apply this to Angel as well. I do.
The thing is, and it pleases me immensely that they addressed this over on Angel, neither of their stories are really about forgiveness or redemption. Because forgiveness and redemption for what they are and what they've done is not possible. For William or Liam, sure. But even with a soul, these guys are demons steeped in blood and violence and acts beyond the reach of such things. They aren't William or Liam, they continue to be a hybrid that still includes that demon. That they feel bad about it now is beside that. Who is going to forgive them, exactly? If every person still left alive that they've damaged did, that would still leave a list that would take years to read out name by name, that are...y'know...too dead to do it. Plus the families and loved ones left behind and long gone just from the passage of time. You can't just trade in new saved lives for a redemption coupon. It doesn't work like that.
The continued existence of Spike (and Angel) is about mercy and it's about grace. Which neither one of them are owed, however much I want I want it to continue (and am glad that it is, on account of...y'know, I love both of them). It's about doing the right thing with no chance of forgiveness, when there's nothing in it for you except that it's the right thing to do. They're still going to hell and they still deserve to. Continuing to fight as champions knowing that is what makes them compelling to me. Not that by fighting as champions they can dig their way out it. 'Cause they can't. Any reprieve from that is granted, not deserved.
That being said, Giles and Robin are in the wrong here. Just not for wanting to, or for trying to dust Spike. They are wrong for betraying Buffy's trust, for acting to block her decisions dishonestly. They're wrong, because in the bigger picture, Buffy is right in saying that in the coming fight they need not to throw away any potential resource if it's at all avoidable, and Spike is a good resource. They're wrong for not seeing that it's unfair and hypocritical to accuse Buffy of letting her feelings for Spike cloud her decision to keep him alive, when it's Robin's need for vengeance which is driving the decision to get him dead (and it is, Giles was cranky but that plan wouldn't go anywhere without Robin's instigation).
But the actual staking of Spike? Yup, no checkmarks against either of them if they'd managed it for that. He's got no right to keep living (such as it were). He just doesn't.
Does this make me a bad Spike fan?
Here's the thing. I love Spike. So it's not like I want him dead. But, I also think that Giles, Robin, any of the Scoobies, or, hell...a random passing postman on the street has the absolute moral right to drive pointy wooden things through his heart whenever they please. That's aside from the danger he may pose because of the trigger. There's no need for any reason beyond, 'he's a vampire with a hundred year with a body count the size of a small country' required here. You can apply this to Angel as well. I do.
The thing is, and it pleases me immensely that they addressed this over on Angel, neither of their stories are really about forgiveness or redemption. Because forgiveness and redemption for what they are and what they've done is not possible. For William or Liam, sure. But even with a soul, these guys are demons steeped in blood and violence and acts beyond the reach of such things. They aren't William or Liam, they continue to be a hybrid that still includes that demon. That they feel bad about it now is beside that. Who is going to forgive them, exactly? If every person still left alive that they've damaged did, that would still leave a list that would take years to read out name by name, that are...y'know...too dead to do it. Plus the families and loved ones left behind and long gone just from the passage of time. You can't just trade in new saved lives for a redemption coupon. It doesn't work like that.
The continued existence of Spike (and Angel) is about mercy and it's about grace. Which neither one of them are owed, however much I want I want it to continue (and am glad that it is, on account of...y'know, I love both of them). It's about doing the right thing with no chance of forgiveness, when there's nothing in it for you except that it's the right thing to do. They're still going to hell and they still deserve to. Continuing to fight as champions knowing that is what makes them compelling to me. Not that by fighting as champions they can dig their way out it. 'Cause they can't. Any reprieve from that is granted, not deserved.
That being said, Giles and Robin are in the wrong here. Just not for wanting to, or for trying to dust Spike. They are wrong for betraying Buffy's trust, for acting to block her decisions dishonestly. They're wrong, because in the bigger picture, Buffy is right in saying that in the coming fight they need not to throw away any potential resource if it's at all avoidable, and Spike is a good resource. They're wrong for not seeing that it's unfair and hypocritical to accuse Buffy of letting her feelings for Spike cloud her decision to keep him alive, when it's Robin's need for vengeance which is driving the decision to get him dead (and it is, Giles was cranky but that plan wouldn't go anywhere without Robin's instigation).
But the actual staking of Spike? Yup, no checkmarks against either of them if they'd managed it for that. He's got no right to keep living (such as it were). He just doesn't.
Does this make me a bad Spike fan?